Lahore, 29 April 2024: Jason Gillespie and Gary Kirsten were featured as special guests in the 48th edition of the PCB Podcast, released on Monday. Below are the interview transcripts of these two coaches of the Pakistan men’s red and white-ball cricket teams.
JASON GILLESPIE
Question: Jason, congratulations on your appointment as the head coach of Pakistan’s men’s Test team. How happy and excited are you to take up this job and responsibility?
Jason Gillespie: The opportunity to be the head coach of Pakistan’s Test side is fantastic. It’s an honor. I've been coaching for quite a while now in various roles around the world, but one thing I haven't done is to coach an international Test side. When this opportunity presented itself, I jumped at it.
Just how Pakistan plays, and the talented and skillful players Pakistan has, it’s great to be part of the team, and hopefully, I can help the team progress, improve, and play some entertaining cricket.
Question: Coaching Pakistan comes with its own challenges and heartaches. Why do you think Pakistan is such an exciting team to coach in Test cricket?
Jason Gillespie: Coaching Pakistan is an exciting job opportunity. I mean, the talent is there, and there are a lot of very skillful cricketers. But there’s been some inconsistency at times too. I think I can help in some way to give clarity to the team on how it goes about playing Test cricket.
I’m all about having fun and enjoying cricket, which players want to do. They want to go out there and entertain the fans and have some fun because that’s why you go into the game in the first place. You love the game and you want to play, have fun with your mates, and entertain the passionate Pakistan cricket supporters with really positive and aggressive cricket.
If we can achieve that, we’ll go a long way towards having some success.
Question: The Australia cricketers play their cricket hard and tough. How can you transfer that aggressive style into the Pakistan men’s Test cricket team?
Jason Gillespie: Look, I simply want the Pakistan cricket team to play the style of cricket that’s going to suit them; for me, that’s important. My philosophy is - don’t try to be something that you're not!
You've got to be authentic in how you go about it. I will go out there and say: just be positive, aggressive, entertaining. Play with a smile on your faces and entertain our fans.
There are going to be times when you have to grind it out, and that’s what Test cricket is. It’s a test of your skills, mental capacity, and patience. There are times to attack and times to soak up some periods of cricket from the opposition.
If we can be as consistent as we can, then hopefully, the scoreboard will look after itself, and we can pick up some wins.
Question: Besides coaching, you will have a selector’s role as well. How do you look forward to it, and how important is it for the coach and captain to have a say in selection matters?
Jason Gillespie: I’m excited about being part of the selection committee. In my whole coaching career, I have had a role as a selector. It all comes down to clarity and communication. I’m looking forward to working with everyone on the selection panel as well as the captain. I feel good and will forge a strong bond, strong relationship, and go from there.
But again, communication and clarity of thought are key.
Question: In the 2024-25 season, Pakistan has ICC World Test Championship Tests against Bangladesh, England, and South Africa. With Pakistan sitting fifth, it has to do some serious catch-up if it has any chances of reaching the final. How do you see your journey in the current ICC World Test Championship?
Jason Gillespie: Obviously, the ICC World Test Championship 2023-2025 for Pakistan is going to be a challenge; there’s no question about that. But, we’ll just take each series as it comes.
The first opportunity that I’ll be involved in will be against Bangladesh at home, and I am looking forward to it. We’ll just take each series and each Test match as it comes.
Look, Test cricket is a challenge, there’s no doubt about that. But if you prepare well, put your best foot forward, then we’ll give ourselves the best chance to have some success.
Question: Cricket is fortunate to have three very successful and exciting formats. How important is it for Test cricket to continue to thrive, and how can you contribute to its growth and popularity as a Pakistan team head coach?
Jason Gillespie: You know, we’re very fortunate to have three wonderful formats in cricket, and that’s the strength of our great game.
I love Test cricket. It tests every part of your game, physically and mentally. It tests techniques, and that’s the true test, which is very relevant. You only have to speak to players around the world, and they all love playing Test cricket. Players want to wear the country’s cap on their head and want to represent their country in Test match cricket.
We see the close finishes in Test cricket; the fans, the players, the coaches, the media, everyone sitting on the edge of their seats. It shows just how Test cricket is valued in the world calendar.
We all understand that there are only 12 months in a year, and there’s a squeeze to fit all three formats internationally along with all the domestic competitions, and particularly the T20 competitions that are around. And that’s fine, but Test cricket will always have its place.
I’m really looking forward to playing my part in Pakistan’s journey in Test cricket and hope we can create some memories for all our supporters, which will be pretty exciting.
Question: Your and Pakistan cricket fans would like to know about your coaching style and your expectations from the side in the Test arena?
Jason Gillespie: Look, I look up to teams. I like hardworking players and believe in discipline. We are in an entertainment business, and I just want to showcase our skills to the crowds, to our supporters. I want to play games and perform that mean something, and, more importantly, I want to win.
So, that’s what you’ll see with the Pakistan side. I’m really excited, and I’m looking forward to getting to know all the players, the staff, and I want good communication with the captain and the players. I’m really keen to see how they see themselves, how they want to be seen, and how they want to go about it. And, if I can help facilitate that in any way, then that will be the key for me. So, let's go out there on this journey together and see what we can achieve.
Question: A question, which coaches don’t like to deal with: which Pakistan players excite you the most?
Jason Gillespie: I don’t like answering these questions because you don’t want to miss or leave anyone out. But, I’m genuinely excited at getting to know all the players first and foremost, and then, seeing what allows them to play their best cricket.
I’m excited about working with everyone in the Pakistan cricket team. It’s an exciting challenge with so many exciting players. Let’s go out on this journey, have some fun, work together, and strive to have some success because it’s an exciting group of players.
Question: How do you reflect on your career?
Jason Gillespie: Look, I used to play, I enjoyed playing cricket, and I loved playing Test cricket. But, my career is over. I’ve been a coach for a long time now, and if I can impart any knowledge to help our players improve and get better, then that’s fantastic and that’s what I’m here for.
My expectations are simply for the players to go out there, play their way, and if I can support them in any shape or form, then that’s what I’ll do. You know, that’s what I’m really looking forward to.
Question: You have played against Pakistan. What do you think is their brand and style of cricket?
Jason Gillespie: That’s a really good question. Watching Pakistan play from afar, I know they are very gifted and skillful players. But sometimes, you also hear the commentators talk about their inconsistencies, how Pakistan can be more consistent and stay in the games longer. I’ll be speaking to the players about this as the players need to decide how they want to see themselves and how we can make that happen.
I see talented and exciting players from a batting point of view. A lot of them are very good stroke-makers, very technically proficient players. You’ve got fast bowlers who run in and bowl quick and swing the ball. You’ve got spinners who spin the ball hard. For me, it’s pretty exciting to have a Test squad that has all these resources.
So, it’s an exciting group of players to pick from. You know, there’s a lot of high-end talent in Pakistan. So, that’s certainly something that I’m excited about.
Question: Can you share with us some memories from your playing days against Pakistan?
Jason Gillespie: I remember playing a few Test matches against Pakistan. I didn’t have a lot of success. I remember a couple of games where I bowled pretty well, but didn’t really get many wickets. I got a five-wicket haul against Pakistan, I think it was in Nairobi and a long time ago.
I probably had a little bit more success in the one-day arena against Pakistan, but yeah, Test cricket probably battled a little bit. I was fortunate enough to play against pretty good players.
I think the margin for errors was very small when bowling to Pakistan batters. I remember trying to take wickets and bowling very well, but unfortunately never got enough wickets against them in Test cricket.
Question: Fans are the biggest assets. What will be your expectations from the fans during this journey?
Jason Gillespie: The role of the fans in cricket is vitally important; without the fans, we don’t have a game. I’m very conscious that cricket supporters are very passionate, and I know the Pakistan cricket supporters are incredibly passionate. They want to see success, and they want the team to do well.
I completely understand and appreciate that. We’re going to have some great days in Test cricket for Pakistan, and there’s a chance we’ll have some not so good days. But if we can bridge that gap and minimise those bad days and keep striving to have more good days, more good hours, more sessions, we can have some success.
I want the fans to be rest assured that the bad days are not going to be through a lack of effort or lack of preparation. We will be working hard and preparing very well.
I’m convinced that talent’s there. And if you combine that talent with discipline, go out there and play with a smile on face, I’m sure a lot of good things can happen.
I am looking forward to bringing the Pakistan fans on the journey with us because their support is going to be crucial. We want the fans to enjoy the journey. I know performances are going to be critiqued, and that’s okay. But I’ll be backing the guys 100 percent each and every day, and hopefully, we can have more good days than the not so good days.
Question: During your time with the Pakistan Test side, what would you like to do and achieve, how would you like to be remembered, and what do you think would be sort of your legacy?
Jason Gillespie: That’s a really good question. To be honest, I’m not really sure. What I do know is that you’ll see in my time with Pakistan that I’ll be very transparent and very open. The team will be going out there and playing the way we want to play. I want to give the players a lot of ownership of the team and how they go about it. We will play as a team and have fun.
I just hope in my time with Pakistan, we’ll give it our best shot. We’re certainly not here just to compete; we’re here to win. And I’ll be doing my best to try and help facilitate that.
I want people to know that I’m here to help. I want to assure the people of Pakistan that there won’t be any lack of effort, and I’ll be putting all my efforts into helping this team get better.
Question: And surely you will not miss out on the opportunity to bring your family and explore this beautiful country, and also enjoy the hospitality and lovely food?
Jason Gillespie: Absolutely. My wife and kids are very excited about the opportunity to come to Pakistan and see the sights and sounds. I will have to work around their availability with schools, sport, and stuff like that back in Adelaide. But, if there’s an opportunity during school holidays or something like that, then my family will be very excited about coming to Pakistan and seeing what Pakistan has to offer.
GARY KIRSTEN
Question: How will you react to your appointment as Head Coach of the Pakistan men’s white-ball cricket team?
Gary Kirsten: It’s a wonderful privilege to be offered the opportunity to coach the Pakistan men’s national team in white-ball cricket, and also to be involved in international cricket again, which I haven’t been for a while. That’s a huge honor to be in the international game. So, I’m looking forward to the opportunity and hopefully can add some value to the Pakistan men’s national team in limited overs cricket.
Question: What made you take up this job, what was the inspiration and motivation?
Gary Kirsten: Well, I love coaching, first of all. So that’s an important point. As you know, I’ve been involved in the short format leagues for a number of years now. The intensity around every game is pretty exciting. The shorter formats are different from a coaching perspective, so it presents a great opportunity for the coach to do a lot of different things. Specifically, there’s much going on in a 20-over game, and I enjoy coaching from that perspective.
There’s the role of the man manager, which is always massively important from a coaching perspective. There are some tactical considerations that need to be taken into account. I think I’ve built up some good experience around that. There’s also just creating an environment where players can thrive.
One nice thing about the game of cricket is that there’s always a common denominator when you go cross-cultural. When we talk cricket, we all seem to understand what we're trying to say. So, my hope is that I can galvanise the Pakistan men’s white-ball team in such a way that their massive talents can be produced on the field, all flying in the same direction, with a view to the team being a success.
Question: But why Pakistan?
Gary Kirsten: I was offered the role to begin with. I think Pakistan sits as one of the top four to five coaching jobs in the world internationally. The proposition to work with some of the best cricketers in the world was appealing to me. What is important is that I have the opportunity to work with some of the best cricketers in the world and that excites me.
Question: Have you been following Pakistan’s white-ball cricket lately?
Gary Kirsten: Not very closely until I was offered the opportunity, to be honest with you. I mean, obviously, I watched a lot of the World Cup last year. I’ve watched bits and pieces of short format cricket and then I watched HBL Pakistan Super League, which is really at a great time in South Africa. It’s in the evening, so we can kind of come back from a working day and switch on the TV and there’s HBL PSL.
So, I’m familiar with all the players pretty much just watching them through the various tournaments.
I think the view on Pakistan cricket hasn’t shifted for a long time. There is always an expectation that it should be a high performing team all the time. We know in team sports, that’s not always the case. It’s always wonderful from a coaching perspective when you can help them (players) unlock the real potential. That’s what I’m looking forward to. I’m really looking forward to working with those individual players and the team and assisting them that way.
If you’re a cricket lover internationally, you are very familiar with the Pakistan players because they’re all over the place and it’s great watching them play cricket.
Question: I know it is a difficult one as coaches like to treat every player equally, but which are your favourite current Pakistan players and why?
Gary Kirsten: Well, you’re right. It’s not a question that coaches like to deal with because you believe that a high percentage of your players in the team are capable of becoming match-winners. The one thing that I’m looking forward to getting back into the international scene is you’re essentially picking your best players out of the country, which I haven’t done for a while because I’ve been in the leagues. In the leagues, you got to kind of build your team through a draft or an auction system.
So, I’m looking forward to taking that out of the equation.
We finding the best players that we have in Pakistan and working with them. You know your household names – your Babar Azam, your Mohammad Rizwan, your Shaheen Afridi, your Haris Rauf. All these guys have been around the circuit for a long time. I’m looking forward to understanding what makes them tick and how I can help them to be the best versions of themselves going forward. That is going to be of benefit to the national team.
Question: How do you reflect on the Pakistan cricket teams you played against and what are the takeaways from those times which you can integrate with the present side?
Gary Kirsten: You know, that’s very important. Every team does have an identity that identity is driven from a lot from who they are as people. That’s a national identity how they operate as people in the country. So that’ll be for me.
One of my biggest journeys will be to really understand the people of Pakistan and what makes them tick. I’ve been very fortunate that I was in Pakistan for three cricket tours and got a bit of a flavor for how much they love their cricket. But I think most importantly for me now is just to really get to understand a little bit of the roots in Pakistan and try and connect.
It’s not that I’m going to be doing anything special, I just think sometimes it’s nice when you build that narrative every day in the team environment which connects with the core of who they are as people rather than they’re just another professional team operating.
It would be important that the game’s history is honored, protected and well looked after. I think Australia have probably been really good at it. You know, they have been leaders in world cricket in how they protect their history. So, for me that would be something that I’d like to understand better in Pakistan and certainly for the modern or the new group of players to affiliate themselves with that history as well.
Question: What are your memories about Pakistan from your playing days?
Gary Kirsten: When I came to Pakistan for the 1996 World Cup, which was my second tour after the 1994 tour, the first thing that stood out for me was the absolute passion and love for the game. You know, there were people who love the game of cricket more in Pakistan than in a lot of countries. That was great to see as a South African and amazing how I could arrive as an international person. I almost kind of immediately got that respect and value because I’m a cricketer. The kind of love that I found and that the Pakistan cricket people were really gentle in their approach to you coming into their land to play.
I never felt uncomfortable in Pakistan, I always felt warmly treated and then the cricket was competitive, facing some of the best fast bowlers in the world over a number of years.
I always enjoyed batting up front in Pakistan because I felt that the wickets were probably playing at their best with the new ball. But, then you had the challenge of some of the most fearsome fast bowlers around. I really loved the contest with Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis, Shoaib Akhtar and Mohammad Sami. Those were all incredibly tough contests and I enjoyed going to play cricket in Pakistan. It was a good experience as a batsman.
Question: You have a proven record as a coach who develops talent and instills a winning culture. How do you plan to introduce this in the Pakistan cricket team?
Gary Kirsten: I think that’s going to be a journey that I've got to walk. To understand how to get the best out of this group of players, it’s as simple as that.
For me, the most important thing is establishing a really good environment for people to operate at their best, to understand where the players need to be challenged, but also at the same time where they need to be thoroughly enjoying what they do. I don't have the silver bullet to success, my role is to try and enable the players to play at the absolute maximum of their talents.
That’s not an easy thing to do in any environment because there’s always a lot of noise. A team loses a game of cricket and then, you know, the noise pops up. What will be incredibly important will be our ability to stay on the course and hold our line in terms of what we believe is the right way to play the game.
Question: What is your coaching style and what will be your expectations from the side?
Gary Kirsten: I’m a fan of continuity and consistency in the process and let the processes and systems serve their time because if does, you’ve got really talented players and there is really a good chance that you will have some sustainable success, which is what every team is looking for.
So, that’s a journey we’re going to have to walk. I have to understand and kind of do an audit of the environment and just understand what’s working, what’s not working and where I can, as a head coach, move into the spaces that maybe have a bit of blockage to try and free that up so that the players can go out and perform at their best.
Question: You will join the side after finishing your present assignment. How do you plan to manage the time from now till teaming up with your side in the lead up to the World Cup?
Gary Kirsten: It just so happened that I am on an assignment. So, it was difficult to move away., I’ve got to see my contract out here.
But the plans are already in place. Azhar Mahmood as interim head coach is doing a great job. We are communicating at the moment. I’m getting to understand the team and how they’re playing. I’m watching them play, which is great. I certainly have get my head in the space, but at an arm’s length. We’re in communication as a team but at the moment he’s running the show, I don’t want to lead from a distance because I don’t think that that is a healthy space to be in. It’s difficult actually, but we are doing the best we can.
It is going to be a quick turnaround (for me), there's no doubt, we just have to accept that. But, we are hoping that we can build some structures into the team over the course of the next three weeks or so to provide clarity that the players need going into the ICC Men’s T20 World Cup.
Question: It’s good to have Azhar Mahmood on your side now that he has been confirmed as assistant coach as he can provide you with all the information, background and data that can assist you put together plans and strategies?
Gary Kirsten: Absolutely, he’s been an incredible help, he definitely knows the players better than I do. We're going to work closely together and I think we’ve got a decent relationship. I’ve played a lot of cricket against Azhar, we’ve been on the opposite sides of the cricket field, but we’re on the same team now. So, I’m kind of looking forward to that journey with him.
He’s a well-qualified coach and he’s very dedicated at his work. He’s got good relationships with a lot of the players. He’s obviously been involved in the HBL PSL and understands the spaces. I’m going to arrive with a lot of curiosity around why things are done in certain ways and challenge of systems and processes, and hopefully we can work well together.
In the end, our role is really to enable the team to play at its best. That is the job of the coaches. We’ll do everything in our power to make sure that we attempt to do that.
Question: Under your watch over the next couple of years, Pakistan will play in three ICC Events – two T20 World Cups and one Champions Trophy. What target you have set for yourself?
Gary Kirsten: Well, my designation is the white-ball coach. So, 50-over cricket will be as important as T20 cricket.
I think the important thing for me is to understand where the team is at and where we want to go to - whether that is winning World Cup events, which, by the way, is not easy. Often some people think you just pitch in and you’re going to win the championship.
But, if you can win one of those three ICC Events, that will be an amazing achievement on its own, whether it’s the upcoming event or it’s two years from now. My job is to make sure that the team operates at its best, it’s as simple as that. And if the team is operating at its best, we will always have a good chance of winning a trophy. But if the team is not operating at its best, we won't and that would be the same for any team.
So for me, it will be really important to understand where is the team now and where does it need to go to be able to compete right at the top of the pile, and that’s winning ICC events.
You can’t guarantee a trophy, but what you can do is put the steps in place to give yourself the best chance of winning a trophy. And that’s really what I’ll tend to do.
Pakistan, by the way, and as we all know have got a history of performing well in World Cup events. So it’s just one of the steps that you need to take to go all the way. It’s as simple as that.
Question: As you can imagine, Pakistan is a cricket passionate and crazy country. What will be your message to the cricket team fans and followers?
Gary Kirsten: I think what’s really important is that the players don’t see this massive support base as a burden of expectation, but rather see it as a journey that they walk hand-in-hand with the Pakistan people.
So, my message to the Pakistan people would be let’s be patient around performances, number one; and number two, let’s try and identify with the players and support these players as they are your players. We’ve got to be patient around performances.
We will do our best to make sure the team is winning a lot of games of cricket, but sport wouldn’t be sport if you didn’t lose as well. If you just won everything, you could package it and sell it off to anyone around. These are the steps of success.
It’s sports and you’re playing against quality oppositions. They’re going to challenge you all the time. So, it’s really just to get behind the team as much as you can to feel that you’re walking a journey with them. Sometimes when you identify and engage your friends who are actually walking hand in hand with you in all these ICC events, these become great images that you can portray to the people.
Question: How you want to be remembered after you complete your assignment? What do you think will be your legacy?
Gary Kirsten: To be honest with you, I’m a little bit scared around the word legacy because it’s not about me but about me enabling the team to be the best it can be.
So, I would like to be remembered as a quiet coach who just got on with the job by not seeking any attention, was very quiet around the stakeholders within the team, the media, the sponsors and everyone that sits around the team. My recipe is to stay under the radar in many ways and allow the players to enjoy the success, and when things aren’t going well, it’s to let know that we are all together in this to go where we want to go.
If I could portray that style of coaching, I’d be very happy.
Question: And last comments or thoughts you will like to add that we didn’t discuss in this interesting and engaging conversation?
Gary Kirsten: I am certainly a big fan of continuity and consistency. Those are two words that are really important to me. So, there might be some frustrations around players in and out of form, and that happens in the game. I would certainly push hard to make sure that the environment remains consistent. If I’m going to pick a player because I backed him, that player is staying and not going anywhere until and unless it gets to a point where we would have to make a shift. As a coach, I’m a big believer in continuity and consistency.
